Which side of the border was that first attack again? Seems to be some question about that.
I have seen this said at some international news sites like the Asia Times and so on and now I see it from Harper's. The main justification I have seen to defend the excesses of the Israeli response to two of their soldiers being captured was that Hezbollah crossed the border to do it with. Well exactly what proof of this is there? We have all seen in times of war/conflict the truth be the first casualty of that war and revisionist behaviour from participating parties after the fact. I do not know whether this is true in this case, but I do know there is enough reason to question this and require hard evidence (and preferably from third party souce verification) before believing either side's version given the disparity. Which is important to determine seeing as it is a lynchpin behind the official stated reason Israel gave for the rather massive response of attacking throughout Lebanon starting with bombing the Beirut airport. Well, it is late and I need some sleep, I will probably add to this later on when I have the time.
posted by Scotian | 3:01 AM
7 Comments:
Even if third party facts were stated, one of the parties would always disagree. Sort of a catch 22.
I've seen it in several news outlets lately, none of which are from the U.S.
On the BBC, particularly on their "Have your say program", where they have people from all parts of the world calling and e-mailing in, most of the respondants seem to accept that the story about the kidnap, or capture of the soldiers is suspect, including some of the calls from Israel. We'll probably never know for sure, but the recent reports that discussions and plans were underway before the soldiers disappeared lend credence to the preplanned situation. I also find it very strange that many observers in the U.S. thought that there would be another crisis situation leading into their November elections. Now we have this mess, with the US steadfastly refusing to exert influence for a cease fire. I don't usually subscribe to conspiracy theories, but this seems all too convenient timing, and I'm angry that Lebanon is being used as a surrogate battleground, with so many people being killed. I'm also angry that the attention has been diverted from Afghanistan and Iraq, where the deaths continue to mount with no increase in security or comfort to the civilian populations. What a disgusting quagmire.
Labenese Security spokesman just confirms on CNN that they were indeed kidnapped by Hezbollah. Guess the conspiracy theorist will have to go back and look for more UFOs.
GG:
I honestly do not know what to make of all this. This could all be simply the result of coincidence and bad time created as a result of the Bush Administration 's hands off approach to the ME and Israel since it came to power. It could also be the result of certain actors wanting to use this chaos to advance their own agendas. The problem with conspiracy theories is how do you tell the difference between them and the natural convergence of interests acting together but not in a coordinated manner?
I tend to subscribe to the notion of convergent interests acting independently far more than I tend towards believing in grand conspiracies. That said, I also know enough history to know that such conspiracies have occurred and are generally the result of those with power protecting their power.
As for the border crossing issue itself, I agree we may never know the truth in this. The only thing I can think of that might help prove this one way or the other is to see whether Israel had released the names of those killed in the original raid. If so see if their families have had the funerals for them yet. If not then it indicates that the bodies were inaccessible for an extended time which would make no sense if they were on the Israeli side of things. Other than that though I can see no way to make a determination and even this method is not going to result in unequivocal proof.
In any event all I know is that I find the current situation horrific, and that so many women and children have died directly from these attacks by Israel undercutting any ability I have to believe they are trying to limit civilian casualties to the maximum extent possible. I also wonder how many refugees will die from hunger, thirst and heat exposure of the many hundreds of thousands that have had to flee the area. This is just one more humanitarian catastrophe, and one I do not think had to happen.
Israel clearly had long term plans waiting for a triggering event. These soldiers were clearly used as that event. What I find worth considering is that if the lives of these soldiers are the first priority than it seems this reaction could have gotten them killed in "friendly fire" given the intensity of the Israeli response. It is hard to square the use of "precision weaponry" with the massive amount of civilian deaths of clearly innocent children and the UN post hit last week. Israel may be winning the battles, but I think it may well have lost this war, and the idea of it's invincibility over all it's opponents in war, something they have traded on for decades now to their advantage. Not to mention it's reputation internationally for being the "David" in these conflicts against their enemy's "Goliath".
So the Lebanese government confirming it is not enough for you. You continue to look for the conspiracy? Try over there in the corner, right behind that UFO.
Saundrie, I agree with your analysis, which is why I indicated that the real truth would probably never come out. A convergence sounds much more likely, and the readiness and williness to take advantage of that convergence speaks volumes about those whose plans were made, and dreams fullfilled - Israel's and Hezbollah's war machines. I'm truly sad that the poor citizens of Lebanon are caught in the vice, watching their country dying around them. Beirut was once the "Paris" of the East. No more. Another fine civilization in the throes of extinction, and the world loses.
"I'm truly sad that the poor citizens of Lebanon are caught in the vice, watching their country dying around them."
The citizens of Lebanon voted in the Hezbollah war machine so your sympathy should only go so far.
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