A bit late Thwap! Not to mention more than a little selfserving too!
I preface this with pointing out I know this blog has been silent for about a year and a half now, and this post is not evidence I plan on returning to regular blogging anytime soon, but this post of Thwap's just infuriated me to the point I just had to write the following, if only for my own peace of mind and stress relief.
Regarding this post...
This time was almost six years ago Thwap, as I said again, and again, and again, to no avail while you and other Dippers were more focused on replacing the Libs than in stopping Harper. You and yours cannot escape your responsibility for the political reality we live with now, and for you now to suddenly see the light when you think a merger means your side gets the most in the process dressed up as being the last chance to save the Canadian way of life is well quite frankly more than a little offensive to me.
I WARNED you OVER and OVER about what the problem about Harper was, that the issue was a fiscally corrupt and tired Lib party or a radical power abusive Harper CPC government, especially if the latter made it to majority and which was far less destructive to our federation, political culture, indeed society as a whole, and instead I got branded a Liberal shill for my troubles by you and your fellow Dippers. I pointed out time and again the problem with the idea that the Layton NDP could become the government was that most voters judging by their actual records will not go for it, which was why I said support the Libs long enough for Harper to be deposed and THEN feel free to take them out, that the risk of Harper outweighed all else.
It *IS* too late Thwap, he got his majority, and what he does over the next several years will mostly be unrecoverable from, especially when he kills things like the Wheat Board (because under treaty once we surrender it that's it we can't restore it), when he delegates/decentralizes powers to the Provinces and/or municipalities they aren't going to give them back easily if at all, and the dangerous precedents he creates will invite further abuse. I've been warning about how dangerous Harper was in these respects for almost a decade now, it was bloody obvious to anyone that knows his record and takes him seriously, and I could never understand how Dippers who claim to be politically intelligent (and by this I mean the party members, MPs, and strategists far more than bloggers like yourself) failed to understand this, so I have always been forced to believe that they and Layton saw this as the "lesser evil" in the pursuit of increased NDP seats and in trying to replace the Liberals.
As I repeatedly said before, if this had been the PCPC this was being done with I would never have been shrieking all this time, but it wasn't, I was never a Liberal shill, member, operative, what-have-you, what I was was what I always said a Harper opponent who was a member of the largest voting plurality in our electorate, the swing centrist/moderate middle, just one that paid closer attention to politics than most of them. I just understood that Harper had no real connection to the middle all along unlike too many others who don't follow politics as closely as I have. Layton, the NDP and you own a lot of the responsibility for Harper's rise to power and majority government, to suddenly claim to see it as necessary to stop him at this point date by merging with the Libs when it *IS* *TOO* *LATE* by finishing your goal of taking out/over the Libs rings very hollow to my ears indeed.
This blog of mine has chapter and verse about why I opposed Harper from back when it would have made a difference, why it was important, and how to do so, it showed I had no partisan bias for any party (the fact that I saw the Libs as the best way to stopping Harper was rooted, as I've said repeatedly for years now, was based on how I read the electorate's voting patterns and what they would go for more than what a party partisan would want to admit) because I simply opposed him, I did not spend my blogging time cheering on Liberal leaders, policies, MPs or attacking the NDP EXCEPT as it related to the prevention of the blocking of Harper from power. If I HAD been a Liberal partisan I would have been doing all those things, but noooooo, I was trying to convince people of the real fundamental risks to our core ways of life and governing by Harper if he ever got to power, especially majority power. Yet now, less than a year after you and yours finally enabled it, now you suddenly see the dangers and think maybe we should take the path of the lesser evil, once the *GREATEST* evil has already WON!?!?!? You have *GOT* to be kidding, especially since your version of the lesser evil just happens to suit your partisan goals all along where the Liberal party is concerned. Funny that.
PCPC after Mulroney, and that to count the Libs out was foolish, and clearly you and yours still fear Liberal resurgence because you now feel you must get rid of it even though it hurts your partisan purity to consider so, and claiming the noble motive argument your proposed was particularly nauseating I might add because as I've said for years now the damage is already done, the best chance was in 2006, the next best chance two years later, and the last real chance was when they were found in contempt as a government last year, but at each time you and yours placed party before country. Well, you get what you pay for don't you...
Sorry Thwap, I know I said goodbye after the last election, but I like to read the blogs still and this post of yours just really sickened me.
P.S.
There was not a this sudden mass of Blue Liberals that stopped the NDP from reaching government, which I have seen many Dippers argue, those were non-aligned centrist swing voters who don't like supporting what they see/perceive as having strongly ideological policies/positions, something the NDP have had and still do, and the Harper CPC managed to downplay thanks in no small part to the silence (relatively speaking to their shrieking about the centrist Liberals and their evils) from Layton and the NDP core/base about Harper. Again, a point I kept making for years prior to his majority and seeing dismissed by you and yours in the Dipper movement. The fault was not in the stars but in yourselves, and you all need to accept this reality instead of trying to pretend you folks were just innocent bystanders whose hands are clean and are the only ones capable of saving us from the evil ones and it was those dastardly Liberal voters who are the reason evil now governs us all. It is this kind of thinking and acting which kept the NDP from being a party I could support for long periods of time, and made it hard to vote for NDP candidates in my riding that I knew were the best people in the riding to chose.
Regarding this post...
This time was almost six years ago Thwap, as I said again, and again, and again, to no avail while you and other Dippers were more focused on replacing the Libs than in stopping Harper. You and yours cannot escape your responsibility for the political reality we live with now, and for you now to suddenly see the light when you think a merger means your side gets the most in the process dressed up as being the last chance to save the Canadian way of life is well quite frankly more than a little offensive to me.
I WARNED you OVER and OVER about what the problem about Harper was, that the issue was a fiscally corrupt and tired Lib party or a radical power abusive Harper CPC government, especially if the latter made it to majority and which was far less destructive to our federation, political culture, indeed society as a whole, and instead I got branded a Liberal shill for my troubles by you and your fellow Dippers. I pointed out time and again the problem with the idea that the Layton NDP could become the government was that most voters judging by their actual records will not go for it, which was why I said support the Libs long enough for Harper to be deposed and THEN feel free to take them out, that the risk of Harper outweighed all else.
It *IS* too late Thwap, he got his majority, and what he does over the next several years will mostly be unrecoverable from, especially when he kills things like the Wheat Board (because under treaty once we surrender it that's it we can't restore it), when he delegates/decentralizes powers to the Provinces and/or municipalities they aren't going to give them back easily if at all, and the dangerous precedents he creates will invite further abuse. I've been warning about how dangerous Harper was in these respects for almost a decade now, it was bloody obvious to anyone that knows his record and takes him seriously, and I could never understand how Dippers who claim to be politically intelligent (and by this I mean the party members, MPs, and strategists far more than bloggers like yourself) failed to understand this, so I have always been forced to believe that they and Layton saw this as the "lesser evil" in the pursuit of increased NDP seats and in trying to replace the Liberals.
As I repeatedly said before, if this had been the PCPC this was being done with I would never have been shrieking all this time, but it wasn't, I was never a Liberal shill, member, operative, what-have-you, what I was was what I always said a Harper opponent who was a member of the largest voting plurality in our electorate, the swing centrist/moderate middle, just one that paid closer attention to politics than most of them. I just understood that Harper had no real connection to the middle all along unlike too many others who don't follow politics as closely as I have. Layton, the NDP and you own a lot of the responsibility for Harper's rise to power and majority government, to suddenly claim to see it as necessary to stop him at this point date by merging with the Libs when it *IS* *TOO* *LATE* by finishing your goal of taking out/over the Libs rings very hollow to my ears indeed.
This blog of mine has chapter and verse about why I opposed Harper from back when it would have made a difference, why it was important, and how to do so, it showed I had no partisan bias for any party (the fact that I saw the Libs as the best way to stopping Harper was rooted, as I've said repeatedly for years now, was based on how I read the electorate's voting patterns and what they would go for more than what a party partisan would want to admit) because I simply opposed him, I did not spend my blogging time cheering on Liberal leaders, policies, MPs or attacking the NDP EXCEPT as it related to the prevention of the blocking of Harper from power. If I HAD been a Liberal partisan I would have been doing all those things, but noooooo, I was trying to convince people of the real fundamental risks to our core ways of life and governing by Harper if he ever got to power, especially majority power. Yet now, less than a year after you and yours finally enabled it, now you suddenly see the dangers and think maybe we should take the path of the lesser evil, once the *GREATEST* evil has already WON!?!?!? You have *GOT* to be kidding, especially since your version of the lesser evil just happens to suit your partisan goals all along where the Liberal party is concerned. Funny that.
PCPC after Mulroney, and that to count the Libs out was foolish, and clearly you and yours still fear Liberal resurgence because you now feel you must get rid of it even though it hurts your partisan purity to consider so, and claiming the noble motive argument your proposed was particularly nauseating I might add because as I've said for years now the damage is already done, the best chance was in 2006, the next best chance two years later, and the last real chance was when they were found in contempt as a government last year, but at each time you and yours placed party before country. Well, you get what you pay for don't you...
Sorry Thwap, I know I said goodbye after the last election, but I like to read the blogs still and this post of yours just really sickened me.
P.S.
There was not a this sudden mass of Blue Liberals that stopped the NDP from reaching government, which I have seen many Dippers argue, those were non-aligned centrist swing voters who don't like supporting what they see/perceive as having strongly ideological policies/positions, something the NDP have had and still do, and the Harper CPC managed to downplay thanks in no small part to the silence (relatively speaking to their shrieking about the centrist Liberals and their evils) from Layton and the NDP core/base about Harper. Again, a point I kept making for years prior to his majority and seeing dismissed by you and yours in the Dipper movement. The fault was not in the stars but in yourselves, and you all need to accept this reality instead of trying to pretend you folks were just innocent bystanders whose hands are clean and are the only ones capable of saving us from the evil ones and it was those dastardly Liberal voters who are the reason evil now governs us all. It is this kind of thinking and acting which kept the NDP from being a party I could support for long periods of time, and made it hard to vote for NDP candidates in my riding that I knew were the best people in the riding to chose.
posted by Scotian | 12:15 AM
4 Comments:
Thwap has a perspective problem, probably due to age and lack of breadth of education. At least that's my opinion, after being flamed by him and PSA. They have comprehension problems, primarily because they have the mindset that, what they believe to be true must be true — unfortunately, like Stevie Wonder wrote, when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer.
SF: If you haven't, check out "The Atrocity Archives" by Charles Strosser. He's in Wiki.
Then there are those - like me - who despaired of the NDP more because public perception is such an ass than any fault except often not highlighting policy differences. They have avoided cult of personality and gone after those seeking relief from our version of the bipartisan tyranny - which 'Canada's Natural Governing Party' lost out due to people finally recognizing that.
Harper is a NeoCon and benefits from GOP election bending skills. Even so, the Liberals are no safe harbour. Go back to Chretien's first election campaign victory, where he abandoned his Red Book for the PC platform.
opit:
They used to avoid the cult of personality, but between Layton and Mulcair I am not so sure one can say that anymore.
As for Harper being a neocon, that does not sufficiently capture the true nature of what Harper was, and he was something worse than the typical Straussian. Take Dick Cheney, another well known Straussian who abused his powers of office, he still for all his (too numerous to list) faults actually tended to practice what he preached and crazy as it was, whereas Harper was in the end solely about power and his agenda of hatred for all things progressive, and especially connected in any way to Trudeau, and his need to destroy it all. I used to describe Harper to people in the early years of his government as Dick Cheney without the principles.
Also, I am getting more than a little tired of having to point out time and again that the abandonment of the Redd Book was not by ideological choice but because of the economic realities and the increased pressure from the international monetary oversight agencies, like the IMF. It seems to have become an article of faith among far too many progressives and in particular NDP partisans that the Red Book was always meant to be a false front. Well I remember well enough that the first year of that government started to try to bring in the RB promises only to find Mulroney had left things in an even worse spot than had been thought, AND that the IMF was making serious noises that if Canada didn't clean up its fiscal house then they would come in and do it for us.
What Chretien and Martin did was hollow out our social programs and social safety net, no question, but they still left the bare framework in place so as to be able to start rebuilding it down the road, something I might also point out had been ongoing in the last few years of that Liberal government. The IMF would have simply wiped them out altogether. Now, facing that choice, which would you prefer to see happen?
Look, I'm fine with being critical of the Libs for what they did and how they did it, but I would prefer it if people would also be honest in why they did it instead of sticking to easier to grasp myths and legends. In some ways I'm finding it becoming the progressive/Dipper equivalent of the Reform/Cons view of the NEP. It makes saying Lib Tory same old story so much easier if one ignores such things, and while I've always agreed that there was some truth to that saying between the PCPC and Libs, to honestly claim that it applied to the Libs and the CPC requires a level of self deception or ignorance I find appalling.
BTW, no party is a true safe harbour from when they campaign to when they govern, including as many Provincial NDP governments have proved true of the NDP. I never trust unreserved any incoming party/government, at best they get a grace period before trust but verify goes into full force, and that grace period is only because a new government needs to learn the tools of the government and how to use them properly before one can fairly judge whether they are trying to follow through on their election commitments.
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